Mom Boss Mode: Leading with Intention & Letting Go of Guilt, ROUNDTABLE (Part 1)

Show Notes:

Motherhood is a leadership role—one that requires resilience, self-awareness, and intentional habits. In this HER Health Collective Roundtable, experts and moms come together to explore how leadership strategies can help mothers navigate both personal and professional challenges while prioritizing their well-being.

This insightful conversation is a must-listen for any mom looking to lead with intention, cultivate balance, and thrive in every season of motherhood. Tune in for practical advice, heartfelt stories, and the encouragement you need to prioritize yourself while leading your family with confidence.

These are the top three things you will learn from this podcast episode:

Proactive Leadership Strategies for Moms – How shifting from a reactive mindset to an intentional, proactive approach can help mothers lead effectively in both their personal and professional lives.

The Power of Boundaries & Saying No – Why setting boundaries and learning to say no without guilt is essential for maintaining mental and physical well-being.

Integrating Passion & Adjusting Expectations – The importance of weaving personal passions into daily life (like impromptu dance parties!) and adjusting expectations to align with the evolving realities of motherhood.

Episode Notes and Resources:

Irene Gouge https://www.lovinglessonslearned.com/

Chasta Hamilton http://stagedoordance.com/

Kelly Smedley http://waypointcounselingnc.com/

Amanda Smith http://hinenibirthandbeyond.com/

Holly Moore http://thatsthemominme.com

Holly mentioned the Via Character Survey: https://www.viacharacter.org/

Support Mama Needs a Moment! Become a patron through our Mama Needs a Moment Patreon.HER Circle – https://www.herhealthcollective.com/membership

Transcript

Crissy Fishbane  

HER Health Collective hosts four expert Roundtables each year, diving into the topics that matter most to moms. These discussions are among our most popular episodes, bringing together professionals from diverse backgrounds to share unique insights and collaborate across disciplines. Our Roundtables are designed to foster a more holistic model of care, expanding expert networks, while emphasizing the power of collaboration.

Today, we are exploring how moms lead at home, in their careers, in their communities. Our panel of HER Experts will share their perspectives on leadership, self care, advocacy and the evolving role of moms, we are excited to welcome our experts today, each will take a brief moment to introduce themselves before we jump into the conversation. Just going to go in the order that I see you. So Holly, would you go ahead and introduce yourself, please?

Holly Moore  

Sure! My name is Holly Moore. I own a practice, That’s the Mom In Me. I am a therapist and school psychologist.

Crissy Fishbane  

Thank you, Holly, Irene. 

Irene Gouge  

I’m Irene Gouge with Loving Lesson Sleep Solutions, where I work as a sleep coach and postpartum doula, and I’m known for helping parents get more sleep with the right strategies using a holistic approach. Thanks for having me. 

Crissy Fishbane  

Thanks for being here. Kelly. 

Kelly Smedley  

Hi, my name is Kelly Smedley. I am a psychiatric clinical nurse specialist, and I’m the owner and founder of Waypoint Counseling and Maternal Wellness. We are a practice that focuses on maternal mental health, providing therapy and medication management.

Crissy Fishbane  

Thank you so much. Kelly, Amanda.

Amanda Smith  

 Hi, my name is Amanda, and I own Hineni Birth and Beyond, and I’m a full spectrum doula, so I support births, postpartum and bereavement. 

Crissy Fishbane  

Thank you. And Chasta

Chasta Hamilton  

Hi. My name is Chasta Hamilton. I’m the founder and CEO of Stage Door Dance Productions, as well as the founder and president of Girls Geared for Greatness, and I am working to make a difference in the youth activity space.

Cindi Michaelson  

Well, to get us started into our discussion today, we’re first going to start with leadership and how it starts within ourselves. We all have to believe that we are competent, confident individuals before we can direct that outward. And so I would love to direct this question to all of you, whoever feels like they, would like to address it first. Please feel free to start talking. We’d love to hear from you.

How can small, intentional habits help a mom feel like a leader in her own life, especially when many moms operate in survival mode?

Irene Gouge  

I really love this question for so many reasons, because I think that sometimes we forget, as moms, that we are actually the leader of our home. Someone once said I’m the CEO of my house, and I was like, Yes, we have to show up with that leadership. And I think that sometimes we forget that our kids are looking to us and seeing how we’re showing up for ourselves so we can show up for them. And it’s that thinking about the airplane analogy, where am I going to put my oxygen mask on first to take care of myself, so then I can take care of everybody else. And I love how you asked, like, you know, how do we get out of that reactive mindset? And so it’s thinking about, how am I responding in these moments to be more proactive?

And one of the frameworks I share with my families is called the breathe love mantra, and it is actually a tool where you really just pause, and you take a moment to have some awareness, and you breathe, and then love stands for I’m going to listen, observe, validate and empower the situation. And I think oftentimes what ends up happening is we don’t think that’s enough, but just pausing to have awareness can make the biggest difference. Because I think that sometimes moms put these expectations on themselves, that I have to do so much, but it might just be shifting our thoughts, shifting our habits around that to help us feel more rested and be able to respond rather than react.

What I’ve seen in my practice with clients, and just my own experience, I’m a mom of four, is being intentional about finding time for yourself and being intentional about building those habits into your day, because when you feel in control and feel that balance in your own life. When life happens with kids, as we know, they get sick, things happen unexpectedly, you feel much more grounded and capable and confident that okay, it might be a bad day, but if I am getting my needs met with these little routines that I’m starting and implementing on a daily basis that make me feel like me, and I’m able to handle those unexpected stressors a lot more easily.

Holly Moore  

And something I think comes to mind when I think about these like small, incremental habits, you know, part of that practice is kind of grounding ourselves into the space that we’re in, because so much of parenting feels nebulous, and it’s happening to us. And so I find that, like, you know, making the bed, which I don’t always make, making the bed, or,like, putting my hand over my heart, just to kind of remind me that this is my body, like, this is my these are my choices. This is my space like and taking a breath with that kind of anchor me a little bit into not getting caught in the flow of the expectations and the information that’s coming at me. I say that as a as a mom of three, living in a neuro divergent house, it is a constant practice.

Cindi Michaelson  

 I love all that you have said, because as a mom myself, I do find that I need to have these strategies suggested to me, and they have to be reviewed with me, because I tend to forget I live in a reactive mindset quite often, where it’s how do I serve and work with my kids? How do I work with my spouse? How do I work with the schools? How do I and it’s always reactive, but how can I really go into it with a proactive, empowered approach? So many of the things that you’ve mentioned, thank you. They they were helpful. And if you have any other strategies that you’d like to mention that you you’d haven’t yet. We’d love to hear it.

Holly Moore  

I do want to add because, you know, we talk about being empowered and like the parenting space, and I think sometimes we have to look back to our like, younger selves, like our 20 year old selves, and be like, Wait one second. She had something in her like, there were moments where she took risks and she did things and she knew, like, you know, maybe something about herself that others didn’t know. And so it’s not like we’re creating new all the time, sometimes, like, it’s already there. And so I just have to remind myself that my spunky 20 year old self, who felt like adrift at times, actually like, like, sometimes, like, surprised herself.

Irene Gouge  

Holly, I think that’s so valid in terms of thinking about who we are and how we show up as parents, because sometimes we forget, like, the things we love and are passionate about, and bringing that into our parenting, you know. And so one of the things that sometimes I’ll share with parents and like, just have an impromptu dance party when you’re feeling that stress, to let it go, and like we did a lot of Elsa “Let It Go” dancing, because it was really for me, because I was like, I love dancing. And so I was like, let me let it go. And like, move my body and do these things to release, because I can see myself, like putting expectations on myself. And I was like, Well, I love dancing, so I should dance with my kiddos. So finding those passions and doing that. So thanks for that reminder.

Cindi Michaelson  

Irene, the word expectations on ourselves? Ah, huge. So huge.

Kelly Smedley  

And I think going along with that that struck a chord with me is adjusting expectations right? Like your 20 year old self looks a whole lot different now as a mom who’s aging, who has hormones, maybe actually entering perimenopause, and so to expect that you have the energy and the drive to do the things that you used to do when you had no responsibilities or very little responsibilities, is not fair to yourself. And so I find that moms who adjust their expectations, not necessarily setting the bar low for themselves, but just giving themselves that reality check of, where am I right now? Where’s my body right now, where’s my time right now? And what can I do within that? Maybe I can’t go train for that marathon, or I can’t meet my girlfriends for dinner every single night of the week. But what can I tap into that makes me feel like myself and recharges me in a way so I can, I can at least be the best mom I can be in that moment.

Cindi Michaelson  

That’s great, Kelly, and I don’t want you to go very far, because I do have something more to ask you. How can setting boundaries and learning to say no help mothers be more successful at home and at work?

Kelly Smedley  

Boundaries, that’s one of my favorite topics. I like to remind people that no is a complete sentence, so learning to say no and the art of saying no is very important as a mom, too often we know moms feel pressure to be the perfect mom. They they put everybody’s needs ahead of their own, and they don’t prioritize their mental or physical health.

We also have experienced mom guilt in some way, whether it’s not being able to go to like a school function due to a work conflict, feeling guilty for going out at night. With the girlfriends and having your partner having to do the bedtime routine, we tend to feel guilty about everything, and we overextend ourselves in our jobs and at home and expect to do everything with high energy and a smile on our face and our size two jeans. And it’s it’s not realistic.

So I found in my work with both new moms and seasoned moms, and through my own personal experience that those who learn to set boundaries for themselves are happier and more fulfilled by setting limits, whether it’s with your boss and unreasonable demands they may be putting on you or by telling your child that he needs to play by himself for a little while, because Mommy needs a minute of alone time to recharge. Moms are actually demonstrating that it’s important to meet your own needs first, because we know when moms run on empty or burned out, we’re irritable, we’re more likely to have negative interactions with family and colleagues, which of course, creates that vicious cycle of then feeling guilty. So actually, by saying no and prioritizing your own boundaries, you’re saving your energy and are much more effective and productive with your family and work and relationships.

Cindi Michaelson  

One of the things that I find as a mom is that I have to be careful of… not… I mean, you had mentioned your boss or the expectations others put on you, but expectations I put on myself, the way that I want to perform as a parent, it’s can be very unhealthy, to be honest, especially when the idea of boundaries and expectations need to shift based on the season you’re in. For example, I struggle with summer when the kids are off from school. I usually keep all of my expectations for doing my work and doing the house and everything the same as if they weren’t here, and that’s just so unrealistic. So I just wanted to add that in there, and hope that other moms relate to putting immense expectations on themselves.

Irene Gouge  

I think the one thing that you share there, Cindi, is thinking about the only thing we can guarantee is 100% change and becoming prepared for that, you know. And like dealing with that uncertainty takes a level of practice, you know, but I think again, sometimes we expect things to be the same. And one of the things that I remind parents, there’s a really great app. I don’t know how many people know about the wonder weeks, but that really helped me realize, like, hey, my newborn is going to change every three weeks. Then my baby’s going to change every three months until they’re two, and then after age two, we change every six months. But I think as like adults, as parents, we don’t pause to notice that we’re changing. We’re just expecting to go, go, go. And so that has brought some, like, shed some light for me, because when I was doing a home daycare and I had multiple children, I was like, these children are here to tick me off. And I was like, oh, no, no. Look, I have to learn through this moment and like, how to be in this season through those moments.

Crissy Fishbane  

Thank you, Irene. As we were discussing all of this, it really dawned on me that what we’re talking about is sort of this leadership from within that a mom is showing up in her home and her life and her work and society, and these are all things that are coming from within that can make someone emerge as a leader. And as we’re talking about expectations, I’m thinking about what society deems as a good leader, and that moms have this this idea that they need to show up in this way to be a good leader. They need to be on the PTA. They need to help run their daughter’s soccer team and their son’s basketball team, and they need to bake cookies for the bake sale. And that’s what being a good leader for their home and their family is, and it is all of this outside expectation. And I just want to throw out that I think there’s a conversation here about how leadership can look different for different people.

My daughter, she’s seven, and she just recently did a whole project about being a leader, and made this art project, and we had some really great discussions about what makes a good leader. And she said things like being honest and taking turns and asking for help. And I was like, brilliant, that is actually brilliant! That is a great leader. And let’s all kind of take note that it may not be that outgoing, gregarious mom running around, taking, taking everything you know, taking no names. And there can be other other approaches to that.

And I’d love to now turn us to moms as leaders in the home, because this is something Irene touched on, this idea of mom as CEO of the home. And we know that while we are stereotyping a little bit, this is very true in most homes, moms have this this mental hat that they wear, and they know where everything is. They are aware of the calendar, their scheduling. They have the laundry and the cooking and the cleaning going. And I’m not saying obviously that partners aren’t there helping, but this often falls in the realm for a mom. So Irene, this is going to you first. How do moms create the culture of their home through leadership in those daily, ordinary moments? 

Irene Gouge  

Yeah, so I think about leadership is oftentimes, it really is about listening and noticing. And moms can be really good at that, and they see that, but sometimes they don’t voice what they need or where they need to maybe ask for help or delegate. And again, it comes back to some of those expectations we put on ourselves.

So I think one of the things I encourage families to follow through with is like the sleep principles, where, how am I showing up? How am I leading? How am I establishing environments that support me. How do I empower those in front of me who can help guide through that process? And then, how do I play? Because I think that sometimes we forget that as leaders, we’re going to make some decisions. And I think that one practical tool that parents can walk away with is like, how do I make a decision around, like, what feeding and sleeping looks like in my home? And then we show up and like, we just follow through with those things that we have taught our little ones, and through that repetition and that practice of those rhythms and routines, we create it, I think, eliminates a lot of the mental clutter because we’ve already made a decision.

Because I think what sometimes happens is, as moms, we keep thinking about like, well, what are we going to eat? What are we going to is my baby going to nap? Are they going to be able? Are we going to make it to the plague date, on time and things like that? So oftentimes we’re navigating and doing all those things. So creating systems and routines that support us can be really beneficial and helpful, and then having those conversations with our husbands, our partners and those caregivers who are supporting us as well.

So having your community of people so that you’re not doing this alone. And I think it’s those little habits that we create along the way to help us be able to have better leadership in our home and to have the home flowing more smoothly, because I find that like it doesn’t, it is those ordinary moments. It’s just the play moments that we have and having a good time through it.

Crissy Fishbane

You mentioned habits, and I wonder if you can touch on this idea of habit stacking, and what role that can play in helping moms to actually connect with their children, with their partner, to delegate, to lead within the home.

Irene Gouge

Yeah. So I’m a big fan of delegating, like cleanup time to our children and doing that with them, because one of the things sometimes we don’t make time for cleanup, right? Because we’re running off to do the next activity. So sometimes I’m like, what if we were to pause and just recognize, like, hey, we need to clean up the toys before we transition. So encouraging our children to be a part of that process. And I even bring in newborns, I’m always saying, Okay, let’s put away the mat. You know? We’re going to say bye, bye, mirror. We’re going to say night night, and walking and talking them through that process that is building those habits of teaching them, hey, we’re going to be done with this. We’re moving on and transitioning to the next activity. But I think that sometimes, as moms, we don’t think about the transitions, and transitions are a great place to habit stack, because otherwise those roles fall on us, like we end up doing all the cleanup because we’ve moved on to the next thing, and we haven’t allowed time and space for the cleaning up to happen. And I think in those ordinary moments of playtime, there’s so much learning that can happen, like sorting and learning colors and connection that move us through our day. And so I just find that those things build up throughout the day, and then if we can have fun with it, it makes a huge difference. I love a good dance party or bubbles to kind of help us transition.

Crissy Fishbane  

Oh, absolutely. And the transitions are always the most difficult time, right? So if we can have it, stack it and make it sort of this pattern within our home, what a relief for all of us.

Holly Moore  

I have a lot of clients who don’t want to they don’t want to lead, they don’t want to be CEO. They feel like this title been placed on them without any kind of say. So I just wanted to kind of mention that for a minute, because I that resonates with me, like, I really never thought of myself as a leader, and now I am a parent and I guess a default leader, um, and I think that one of the things when we talk about like habit stacking and rituals to kind of go along with what Irene was discussing and culture and the family.

Okay, one of the things that you know we do, and I’ll just share personal example, is every morning I listen to Billie Holiday, it is like, she grounds me in the morning. I can’t imagine a morning without her. I’ve probably listened to her for years now. And so I think that sometimes not labeling, not having to include language, and then just being able to exist in this space, and your children observe how you show up in a way that feels like it connects with you, that feels right, is a way that you can also lead without feeling like you’re having to add a lot of language.

Irene Gouge  

I think the hard part, and I love what you brought up, Holly, because sometimes where I’m like, I did not sign up for this role. I’m not interested. Like to be fired, please. But I think too It’s like learning to just be just be present, be still, and be who I am. And I think that parenthood gives us that opportunity to explore that, but sometimes we don’t always recognize that, and it isn’t about the doing, it’s about the being in those moments. And I think that just can make a huge difference. So thanks for sharing that perspective so important.

Kelly Smedley  

When you become a mom like no one, there’s no one tells you all, all the things, all the mental load, the fact that you now not only have to figure out what you’re eating, but you know, three meals a day, seven days a week, plus snacks for, you know, however many kids for, you know, 17, 18, 19, years, that’s a lot of food to think about just and that’s just food that’s just eating. That’s not something that anybody signs up for. And I think part of being a leader is kind of showing the reality, even to your kids, that like, I don’t really enjoy cooking or planning meals. I’m doing it because I love you and I care for you, and I want us to eat reasonably well, and that, in and of itself, doing the tasks that maybe are not pleasant or not your first choice is actually showing leadership qualities to your kids and your family.

And so I just wanted to mention that that sometimes it’s in these, these kind of invisible ways that we don’t even realize ourselves, that we’re doing, that that kids are seeing that like, Okay, well, you know, my mom doesn’t really like to, like, put the laundry in or figure out what’s for dinner tonight, but she’s doing it, and that’s what leaders do. And sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do.

Crissy Fishbane  

I love that and something that we didn’t touch on, but I feel like it’s alluded to in this past little bit of the conversation here is that so much of this is just put on us. We didn’t sign up for it. We didn’t say yes, I want the CEO of the home role, but it was just kind of put on us. And what I’m kind of realizing is part of being a leader in this scenario is also knowing when to say I need help and I’m going to reach out to my partner or my mother in law, or hire someone if I have the means to do so, because I need something off of my plate, and I need my partner to step up and help me more. So I think that’s a big role that we’re kind of alluding to all of this stuff that was just put on our plate. But also as a leader, we need to know when to step off of that and kind of ask for help and just say this isn’t important to me. So on that note, talking about what is and isn’t important to someone, Holly, this is going to kind of go to you first. How can Moms be more intentional about defining their values and what’s important to them and integrating them into their home life through both their language and their actions?

Holly Moore  

Oh, I love this one. I love this one because it’s not one that I think for the first many years of a parent, I didn’t really think about that much, and now, as I’ve kind of evolved or just realized I needed to root myself in something, it had me kind of assessing like, what are my values? Like? Why am I making the choices that I’m making? Because I’m passionate about things, and you can feel it in your body, the things that kind of drive you, whether it’s a choice to make a peanut butter sandwich or use gluten free bread or refrain from listening to songs with curse words in it, I don’t know, but like, and so it kind of made me, made me begin to think, like, what are my values? And then how, right now, do I lead with them, and for me, and I think for a lot of people, we’re having this conversation of, how do I make meaning of this space? What does it look like? How do I assess it. And there’s a couple ways you can start. You can do like, little surveys to kind of get a grasp on, like, what are the values that ground me? I love the via Institute survey. It’s done through positive psychology, and it kind of talks about the different strengths that you possess individually, and your top strengths kind of will make sense in terms of, like, what, what guides me in the direction that the choices that I make.

But like, in a more like, simple, like, just kind of like, what it what, what is important to me, and what are, like, the three things that are most important to me, and how do I want them to show up in my family, like, right now, one of the things that’s most important to me in our community, and so I think about, what does that look like in action? Instead of just imagining, okay, I want my children to be kind or nice, which I think a lot of times, is what was a message to me, What does actually existing and like in that value and showing up?

So I’ll give you an example of what we’re doing right now. One of the things that we did recently to kind of engage in this value through action, is we volunteered at the local food pantry in Raleigh, even my four year old, my 4, 11, and 8 year olds, we all, we all went on a Saturday, and I will tell you, it was, like more fun than any kind of playground, any kind of like extracurricular thing that we’ve done together. And then on Sunday, I asked my four year old, what’s your favorite part of the weekend? And she said, My job, because she had this specific job that she did at the food pantry. And the girls have asked since then, since when can we go back to do that job?

And so I kind of just beginning to look at, you know, when my anxiety feels or when the anxiety feels just kind of all over, and the macro system kind of feels dysfunctional. Like, where do we go to this space of like, what are my family values, and how am I showing them to my children? How am I acting them out with intention? And I guess what, what I’m really trying to say is like, find a thing that roots you and grounds you. And I think that sometimes that, in itself, can reduce anxiety and helps you decide how you do want to lead your family. And it’s so important, and it’s apparent how when you lead with values in your home life and in your daily life, it makes and influences all of those parenting decisions that you then make and how you show up for your children and with your children.

Crissy Fishbane  

I love the story about the food pantry. Thank you for sharing that.

Holly Moore  

Sure and you can kind of shed the things that don’t matter to you anymore. You can decide, like, once you realize what your values are, you can kind of decide, like, what does align with that, and what do I let go of? And I think that letting go and like speaking to Kelly and the boundaries, like, when you know your values, then you can kind of establish what you want your boundaries to be around things that don’t align with them. 

Kelly Smedley  

There’s a freedom in that right. Like, when you you identify, like, okay, it I’ll give an example for me. Like, you know, you always, there’s always the moms or the parents that you know make like, go above and beyond for holidays, the Valentines, Easter, you know, I don’t know, Christmas, thanks. All everything is a thing, birthdays, and I’m the mom that like runs to Harris Teeter on the way to school, which I’m probably running late. And I’m drop dropping off the store bought cupcakes, because I don’t value that and, and our family doesn’t, and, and that’s fine for people who do but, but, you know, it’s very when I kind of like, at first I felt like I’m doing something wrong. I should want to bake a cake for my kid’s birthday party. And then when I defined like, No, I would much prefer spending my time and energy elsewhere and things that fulfill me and my my family as a whole. It’s very freeing.

And with that, it’s just like, once you kind of define that for your family, like you said, like, you know, community service, or are we, how are we going to spend our time as a family? Is it, you know, going to all the sports practices, you know, traveling, doing travel ball, and if that’s what the family values, and it’s working for the family, wonderful, but for families that it doesn’t, it’s very freeing to not feel like we’re missing out, or we’re we should put our kid in the, you know, 5 million activities, but we actually value like our alone times on the week, nights and and so it’s, yeah, freeing. Just keeps coming to mind that that word.

Holly Moore  

Thank you. I love that you share that, and I think it kind of gives you also, like direction and so, but like, one of my values is, like appreciation of beauty, which is just like being outside and, and so, like, you share that with your family, and you can incorporate it. And then when you know your family’s values, then you can, like, all right, like, how are we going to highlight that? Like, what does that look like in action? I think it allows our children to get to know themselves, too.

Irene Gouge  

Kelly, as you were saying that, it was making me think about talking about the habit stacking where we make the decisions for our family around like, Hey, this is how we do things in the Gouge house, you know, we’ve made that decision. There’s just a lot more freedom. We don’t have to continue to compare ourselves, and then you can just live in that moment and just be and show up and be passionate about the things that you’re doing. And so that was really great insight.

Crissy Fishbane  

I absolutely love it. I love the move away from maybe comparing what we’re seeing other moms do on social media or on TV, and instead just knowing that my home life, my motherhood experience, might be different, and then that is okay. It’s actually kind of a beautiful thing when you really embrace that.

Amanda Smith  

I just wanted to second what Holly was saying, too and Kelly about strengths. I read a book early on in motherhood, called Strength Finders. And it was really about highlighting your strengths and finding people to fill in the gaps where you’re not maybe good at something, instead of trying to do everything at a 10, if you have something at a eight, like make that a 10. And if you have something at a five, well, find somebody that that’s an eight for and bring them in and you know, and I think by doing that in our lives, with my two girls, it showed them that they don’t have to do everything perfectly, that there’s other people that might do things better, and that’s how we build community.

Cindi Michaelson  

Thank you, everyone for your insights. Today. It’s been a pleasure to spend time with you and to hear all of your expertise and knowledge and smarts in this area. So we hope that you all have a wonderful rest of your day, and we look forward to connecting with you all soon.

Crissy Fishbane  

Thank you so much.